In this episode we continue interviewing the writers of the Fat Cat Series of children’s books. This week we talk with pastor and author Harold Senkbeil and discuss discipling the next generation and holding on to faith in troubled times.
Our Guest: Harold Senkbeil
Harold L. Senkbeil is a grandpa and pastor. He and his beloved Jane celebrated fifty years of marriage before her death in December 2021. They have three children and four grandchildren. He loves to write. If you visit Waukesha, Wisconsin you might see him and his grandkids driving around on his ’51 John Deere tractor, Johnnie B.
Books Discussed in This Episode:
Transcript with Links:
Terrie:
Welcome to “Books That Spark,” a podcast for parents and caregivers, celebrating books that spark imagination, emotion, questions, and discussion, leading to teachable moments with our kids. Today we have a special guest, Harold Senkbeil, who is sharing with us about his books he’s written. And we talked with Todd Hains before and they worked together to create these Fat Cat books along with the illustrator, Natasha Kennedy. We’ve had them on the podcast in the past, and we’re really happy to have Harold with us today. Thank you, Harold, for joining us today.
Harold:
Oh, what a pleasure to be with you.
Terrie:
So you are now working on the Fat Cat series, and we’ve had a couple guests who’ve also talked about Fat Cat. Tell us a little bit about the series for those who may not have heard the other episodes. What is Fat Cat?
Harold:
Well, Fat Cat refers to a cat, of course, on one level. And the books are all marvelously illustrated by a fantastic artist by the name of Natasha Kennedy. Very, very gifted, full color, beautiful illustrations, biblical narratives. And the gimmick, if you will, is that there is an Easter egg of sorts on every single page, namely a cat who we call affectionately the Fat Cat. Now, that has a double meaning because these books all in one way or another relate to what has been historically among Christians called The Catechism, which is kind of a technical word, but it simply means a book of instruction and it’s gleaned from the Bible, so the chief texts of The Catechism are the Apostle’s Creed, the Lord’s Prayer, and the 10 Commandments. Of course, the latter two, Lord’s Prayer, 10 Commandments, is directly quoted from the Bible. The Apostle’s Creed is a historic statement of the key teachings of the Word of God regarding our salvation in Jesus. So that’s inherited from the early church, but it is a biblical summary, if you will, of the Bible’s teachings. So these three texts together collectively are The Catechism, and our contention is that The Catechism is fat, so to speak. Namely, it’s bursting with meaning and application. So our goal is to make the discipling of children an interesting experience for both parents and children. I know when I’ve tried it out with my granddaughter and she just loves to find the cat on every page, and she knows the Bible stories so she can pick out what’s going on on that level visually. And then there’s text in there to unpack that particular portion, in this case of the Lord’s Prayer. And so I read that and I talked to her about that in kind of a dialogue fashion. So it’s kind of fun, really. It’s a novel way to lead the little ones into the deeper wells of the green pastures and quiet waters of God’s work.
Terrie:
Oh, I love that. And so you’ve written The Lord’s Prayer one, are you writing any other books?
Harold:
Yes. As a matter of fact, Apostle’s Creed was written by Ben Meyers. It’s already out for some time. Lord’s Prayer’s just out, we’re recording this, what, late October 2022 as we speak. I’m working on The 10 Commandments with the chief editor of the series, Todd Hains, who’s a wonderful man and a gifted theologian, and also a dad. So he provides a lot of inspiration and motivation. And I don’t remember exactly the projected release date for The 10 Commandments, but probably sometime late next year or maybe early the following year.
Terrie:
Okay. And I know that you’ve written quite a few books in the past that are for adult readers. What made you decide to start writing some children’s books?
Harold:
Well, I guess the thing is, I’m a pastor at heart, and so pastors deal with all kinds of people in all situations. And so my conviction is that theology ought to be practical, and it’s a tool for laypeople and for pastors to help them understand the teachings of the word of God. So all my life, and I’ve been at this now 51 years, I’ve had in mind, not just mature adults, or educated theologians, but people of all walks of life, all ages, all circumstances, and among them, our kids, there are three wonderful people that used to be kids, and they are mine and through them now, four others in the next generation. And then beginning to think about the generation coming after that, although God willing to be a few years before that happens. So in other words, from one generation to the next teaching how the word of God needs to go forth. And so I’m happy to be involved in this at this stage of my life.
Terrie:
That’s wonderful. And so what did you find most challenging to try to write these wonderful concepts in a way that children can understand them? Did you find it simple?
Harold:
That’s exactly it. Simple is really difficult. And you know, if you’ve ever tried as a parent to communicate on a child’s level, important things, you know how important it is to get down on their level, if you will. But in many ways, they have insights that adults don’t because their imagination is very creative. Jesus said that a little child is the greatest example of a disciple. And one who is unencumbered by all the accumulated mess of adult lives, but yet one who is therefore receptive to the teachings of God’s spirit through His word. And at least I find I have found this through the years, and I find it still today, that children will make connections that would escape adults, because they’re open to connecting the dots, so to speak. So they would see, for example, the relationship between Jesus and Moses and how both were saviors on a different level. And in the face of great danger and death, rescuing Israel through the Red Sea in the case of Moses and at the cross, and by His resurrection, conquering death from the table in the case of Jesus.
Terrie:
Share with us a few of your books in case some of the parents would be interested in knowing about those. What books have you written?
Harold:
Well, there’s kind of a Duke’s Mixture, if you will. There’s some more theologically oriented ones, like for example, on sanctification. I have a couple titles, one by that title, and one called Dying to Live. Let’s talk about the death of the old sinful nature and the resurrection of the new person in Jesus, which is rooted and founded in the dramatic rescue that God affects in Christ, and then gives to us in the waters of holy baptism. So a newness of life every day, dying to live God’s call. It’s quite a few years ago now, when a friend of mine who is a clinical psychologist, asked if I ever considered publishing my sermons, and I said, you know, I don’t even read my own sermons, let alone books of other people’s sermons. But she said she wanted this for her clients that she was constantly, so I handed her a whole bunch of my old sermon manuscripts and, wonder of wonders, she condensed them, made me wonder why I didn’t write shorter sermons, and they became devotional books. So there’s, Where in The World is God is one of them, about various circumstances of life. And then another one is Triumph at The Cross, which is kind of a journey through the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus.
Terrie:
Well, that would be wonderful to read during the Easter season.
Harold:
Yeah. Those would be devotional in nature. They could work on that level. Busy parents could sit down with them probably in five minutes and read through it, enhance their prayers and meditation. Then I have a couple of books that are more distinctly for pastoral work because I’ve, in the latter last couple of decades, I’ve focused, especially, you might say on pastoring pastors. So there’s one title, The Care of Souls, which happened to glean a lot of recognition in three major national awards actually. And the subtitle is “cultivating a pastor’s heart”. So I illustrate what it’s like, not just what a pastor does, but who a pastor is. And my illustration in many cases comes from my childhood. I was raised on a farm in Western Minnesota, so I have a lot of kind of rustic, earthy kinds of stories that go with that, and what it was like to grow up as a kid on a farm. We took care of animals and how that is analogous to what a pastor does in taking care of the sheep and the lambs of Jesus. So there’s that book, and then there’s a whole series that came out of that called the Ministry Guides. And those are in different topics like pastoral leadership, funerals, stewardship, spiritual warfare, visitation. So it’s different aspects of pastoral life. Now, those books, they’re direct interest or importance to those who are pastors now. But I would say any layperson who really wants to support their pastor could glean a lot from them too, they’re short little books, very accessible. Alexa, ministry guides. I don’t write all of those. I’m the general editor, thank God, because we have several score of titles of mine. Well, that’s great. And then one that I thought was kind of near and dear to me, it’s called Christ and Calamity. So the subtitle of that is Grace and Gratitude in the Darkest Valley. I already mentioned Todd Hains, who’s a marvelous man, but he’s also kind of a slave driver. He, just as Covid was upon us, he was kind of bemoaning some of the responses of other Christian leaders as far as how they were trying to help people in this mess. And he said, couldn’t you write something for us of a devotional nature? And, kind of right up my alley, so I said, sure, I’m not doing anything else. In 14 days, I think it was, I cranked this thing out. But he was a slave driver and there was always a push because it was a hurry up project, let’s get it done, let’s get it edited, let’s get it printed and distributed. So that does originate in the covid situation, but it’s really applicable to any personal tragedy of any sort. I refer to those throughout. It happened that, let’s see, I think that was 2020, so that very Fall after I had written that book, my wife, who had been ill for a number of years, went into the hospital a couple times, and of course if you had any loved ones in the hospital, you know. That was, and so when she came home, the doctor said, she’s not going to get better, so she could go to a rehab hospital. And I thought to myself, wait a minute, did you listen to yourself? She’s not getting better, go to a rehab. So I said, no, I want to take care of her. He says she could come home on hospice. And I said, that’s the solution, so we had 14 wonderful months together. I wouldn’t wish what she went through to a lot of my enemies, but she did it with grace and gratitude. She’s a wonderful, beautiful woman, courageous. A woman of great faith. So early on, she asked me if I would read every night to her from this book, Christ in Calamity. So I read a chapter, there’s short chapters every night, and then there’s prayers in there, which we prayed together. And quite often, not always, but quite often, she would say, are you sure you didn’t write that for me?
Terrie:
Wow.
Harold:
And I said, you know, not consciously, but in God’s providence, maybe I did.
Terrie:
Yeah. God is so good. Wow.
Harold:
Oh, it’s an interesting book on that level, I think. I think people could gain a lot from that.
Terrie:
Yeah. Well, speaking of Covid and the reactions of different people and what all has happened to so many of us during this time, I know many young families have not returned to church. Many young moms are afraid that their kids are going to be exposed to Covid, and so they’re making decisions that trying to protect their children, trying to be wise. But we also know that it’s so important for us to have that fellowship. Could you share some encouragement for these moms and these young parents as they are trying to figure out how to navigate our new situation in our world today?
Harold:
Well, first of all, they have my empathy. I mean, I can’t imagine what it’s like. I mean, we, my wife and I went through lingering illness and death during this time, but we had a little window of joy because we were able to celebrate 50 years of our marriage in the middle of that, with an outdoor gathering of a significant number of people and a lot of our friends, and chiefly our family of course, so that was nice. So first off, folks who’re trying to do this, have my understanding, and I know you’re trying to do your best, but it’s complicated, frankly, because as we all know, there’s conflicting information out there.
Terrie:
Yeah.
Harold:
And sadly, people kind of weaponize that. And it’s being used, I think, by Satan to create a lot of division in the church.
Terrie:
Yes, I agree.
Harold:
So humility and repentance is called for an understanding of those who hold a different position. But if I were a parent in navigating that, I mean, you know, we are blessed in a way that we’ve learned a lot about technology. We had a great gift here that we never used fully. But I would say using that the best you can, many churches, including my own, have to this day online worship, so to speak. Now, I have to play my cards and show my hand, that I really don’t think that’s a very good substitute, especially for the long haul because the church is an embodied community, and so we’re not just a fellowship of minds and hearts, but of people. And so we need to see one another, we need to be with one another, and when the time is right, we need to touch one another. Little one’s education has been a mess because of this. I have a lot of empathy for those who are trying to teach their children in this. Again, there are a lot of online resources that’s good, but as much as possible, try for face-to-face interaction, safe environments, something, get outside, what’s reasonable. And the other thing is, when going back to Fat Cat, each of the books has a major section for parents to refer them. First of all, to the Bible stories that are illustrated by Natasha Kennedy for each part of the book, and then there’s extensive section for family prayer. Again, age appropriate, and it’s something that kids, they don’t have to be readers. They can just hear the words and learn them by heart, they’re not extensive, and we can learn by repetition. That’s the best way that children learn of a certain age. And we had to learn our times tables by what now it’s called rote memory. But you know, you committed it to memory and it stayed with you. And how did you do it? By repeating it over and over. And that’s the collective wisdom of Christians through the centuries. What’s most important we learn by repetition. The Bible says thy word, have I hid in my heart. And when it’s down in there, nobody can take it away from you.
Terrie:
Oh, that’s good. Okay. Well thank you so much for taking time today and sharing with us. I’m so sorry for your loss, but I am thankful that God used your book to bless your wife in those last days. What an amazing God we serve.
Harold:
Yeah. Right. Yeah, that was a blessing to me at the same time with her.
Terrie:
That’s beautiful. I do appreciate your time and appreciate what you’ve shared, and I do hope that my listeners will look at some of your books and maybe find encouragement in them. And of course, we’re very excited about the Fat Cat series. I’ve just really enjoyed reading those books. They’re a real blessing and I think so needed today in our culture when so many of us either haven’t been raised with The Catechism or have gone away from it, and I wasn’t raised in that tradition, but I’ve grown to appreciate it.
Harold:
Yeah, well, right. It’s a teaching tool legacy, I’d say, and it really is a devotional tool, which we’ve tried to bring out by putting the prayers.
Terrie:
Yes. Yeah. And I love that.
Harold:
My Lord’s Prayer especially picked up on the fact that Jesus gave the prayer and answer the question, “Teach us to pray.”
Terrie:
Yes.
Harold:
So each line is a prayer in itself, but also in instructing children and adults on how to pray like Jesus did. Well, thank you, Terrie. Have a great blessed day.
Terrie:
You too. Thank you. Thank you for joining us for “Books That Spark,” a podcast, celebrating books that spark imagination, emotion, questions, and discussions as we disciple our children and help them follow Christ with their whole hearts. If you would like to connect with Harold, you can find him on amazon.com, and he has an author page there. There will be a link in the show notes for Harold Senkbeil, and if you need to spell his name in case you’re trying to do a search for him, it is actually spelled S E N K B E I L. But it’s pronounced “Sink-Bayel.” You can find him, like I said, on Amazon, and he has all his different books, his devotional books, his theology books, pastoral care books, as well as now his children’s books, The Lord’s Prayer for All God’s Children, which is a Fat Cat book. And he is working on some others that will release soon in the coming months, in the coming years. So we’re excited to see those. If you would like to connect with me, you can always connect with me at TerrieHellardBrown.com. This is where you can find the show notes and links for this episode and all the different podcast episodes, as well as my blog, free items that you can download, such as monologues to use for Christmas in your church or for Easter. And you can also sign up for my mailing list, and if you do sign up for my mailing list, you get access to even more free items. Plus you get our legacy email, which is a discipleship-based email to encourage us as disciples of Christ, and that will come to you for about two months, once a week, for two months, and it is just special for those who are on my mailing list. Our desire is to bless you, encourage you, and help you as you seek to grow in your faith and to help your children grow in theirs. As we were talking about in the interview, I want to encourage you. As parents, I know you are making the best decisions that you feel are right for your children. I just want to encourage you to continue to pray, to continue to seek God in how you can best disciple your children and lead them to follow Christ. And as He leads to rejoin the congregation, to be able to fellowship together. And as churches, I want to encourage us, those of us who are in the ministry to shepherd our flock, and part of that is addressing their concerns and trying to make a safe environment where our kids can worship and learn without having to worry about becoming ill. And we do our best and we need to make sure we are listening and trying to do what we can to comfort each other, to encourage each other, and to keep growing together in our faith. I want to just encourage you to continue to be strong and to continue to trust God and have faith in all the crazy things that happen in our world today. We can still stand firm, and we can hold on to faith and walk by faith. It’s a matter of choosing to make choices based on faith rather than the fear that is constantly being thrown at us. And as we were saying in the interview as well, I do feel that Satan is trying to just fill our lives with fear, with dread, fear, discouragement, he’s trying to kill, steal, and destroy, that is his whole agenda. And so trying to counteract that with faith and holding onto God and His word, and being led by the Holy Spirit to know what we need to do that is best for our family. I hope you’re encouraged today, I hope that if you enjoyed this episode and the other episodes that you will like them, share them, let people know we’re here. We really appreciate it. We appreciate you.
Your Host: Terrie Hellard-Brown
Terrie Hellard-Brown writes and speaks to help children and adults find God’s purpose and plan for their lives. She teaches workshops and writes devotional books, children’s stories, and Christian education materials.
Her podcast, Books that Spark, reviews children’s books that spark imagination, emotion, questions, and discussion leading to teachable moments with our kids. Her podcast posts each Tuesday morning.
Her blog posts discuss living as a disciple of Christ while parenting our children. She challenges us to step out of our comfort zones to walk by faith in obedience to Christ and to use the nooks and crannies of our lives to disciple our children.
Terrie uses her experiences as a mother of four (three on “the spectrum”), 37 years in ministry (15 in Taiwan), and 32 years teaching to speak to the hearts of readers.
Her motto is “Life doesn’t have to be perfect to be WONDERFUL” and keeps her childlike joy by writing children’s stories, delighting over pink dolphins, and frequently laughing till it hurts.
